Mindset Artistry
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Mindset Artistry
Chasing Dreams and Finding Fulfillment: Andre Ozim's Journey from Paralegal to Award-Winning Actor
Have you ever wondered what it truly means to embrace a passion? Join us as we converse with Andre Ozim, a distinguished actor who left a secure paralegal career to chase his dream of acting. Andre's remarkable journey from corporate life to winning accolades like the Best Actor at the Tribeca Film Festival is inspiring and a testament to the power of authenticity and courage. With roles in acclaimed productions like "The Gilded Age" and "You," Andre shares how stepping into the unknown led him to a life filled with meaning and fulfillment.
In this episode, we take a vulnerable dive into the mindset and the resilience required to pursue one's purpose. You'll get to hear about our personal stories of the highs and lows of the acting industry, emphasizing the significance of preparation and perseverance. Through Andre’s lens, we explore how viewing acting as a privilege, rather than an obstacle, can transform the audition process into an opportunity for growth. Whether you're an aspiring actor or simply seeking a more fulfilled life, we offer insights into turning challenges into stepping stones.
Beyond acting, we unpack the essence of love and friendships, exploring the societal narratives that shape our understanding. By crafting personal definitions of love, we uncover the profound impact of nurturing genuine connections. From the joy of sharing a poetry book with children to the dynamics of male friendships, we emphasize the value of supportive relationships. This episode is more than a guide for actors; it's a heartfelt exploration of pursuing dreams, love, and the art of authentic friendship.
@AmandaDeBraux @JanelKoloskiOfficial @AndreOzim
Based on A True Love Story
https://www.amazon.com/Based-True-Love-Story-short/dp/B0BNV575VY
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This is the.
Speaker 2:Mindset Artistry Podcast. I'm Amanda DeWoe, an actor or actress per your reference and an inner voice life coach, and I'm Janelle.
Speaker 1:Pulaski, an actor and career and mindset coach. We're your hosts and we're here to flip your mindset, to teach you the artistry of what we learned to keep your mind in check Over the course of our lives.
Speaker 2:we've taken on the journey of healing, living and being authentically ourselves, as we successfully built our individual careers in the entertainment industry.
Speaker 1:This podcast is designed for you so you can discover your goals and courageously reach them at your highest potential, while being a hundred and thousand percent yourself.
Speaker 2:What you'll get from us is real, dirty and okay, a little more like a lot of quirky, along with special elite guests that nurture empathy and create a safe space without judgment. So get ready to build a mindset that is unapologetically you and excel beyond the stars. Welcome to the Mindset Artistry Podcast. That's good. Welcome back to another episode of Mindset Artistry, and today we have an amazing guest which I can't wait to dive into. This episode.
Speaker 2:We have the amazing drum roll around the paws, all the things Andre Ozeem, who was an intern paralegal turned actor that I could relate to, working in the corporate world and now actor. And when he moved to New York, he was in search for his passion and he discovered acting, doing background work amongst the many things, and his first project. He got and won the best actor award at the 2016 Tribeca Film Festival. That is incredible. In his first film. He is classically trained in Shakespeare. He studied abroad, taking workshops at various conservatories in London, england, including the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art. Well, hello. He is a self-published author of a children's book entitled, based on a True Love Story, which made number one new release in romantic art on Amazon, which is now available, and we'll dive into that in this episode, and recently he booked and worked on the Emmy nominated Gilded Age on HBO Max season three, and you'll also get to see him in the new season of you, season five.
Speaker 2:So, and wait a minute, wait a minute Let me just drop the fact that he did his Broadway tour debut when he joined the To Kill a Mockingbird his first national tour. Okay, all right, I'm so excited. Thank you for joining us today. I am so excited. We met at, of all places, soho House in LA, and, just like you, we both are new to LA. So welcome, welcome, welcome. What was your journey like? Leaving this corporate world, this very stringent, very by the book world, going into becoming an actor?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So from corporate, I will say the transition was when I was at my job. I hated it. It was boring as fuck. I'm sorry, I don't know if we can curse, but it was hella boring.
Speaker 3:I felt very much in a routine that I did not desire, but I knew I had a good job. Going into film and TV and acting you know theater. Going into film and TV and acting you know theater I feel like that is something that I'm best suited for, if that makes sense. Like I feel like where I was as an intern paralegal, I feel like I wasn't using my best attributes, like I really wasn't suiting myself well. So I had no idea what that was and I chose to move to New York to figure that out. I just knew that I was unhappy.
Speaker 3:Oh wow, this is meaningful, it feels impactful. I felt a difference in my life, and it's not about just acting. I feel like anyone with a purpose can feel the difference when they're feeling a passion for something versus just sitting at a desk and, you know, being good at a job but not getting fulfillment from it or not wanting to wake up and go to it. You know it was a lot of times I didn't want to go. But when I book a job now granted every job I get, you're not everybody on set, and this is something we can talk about later. Everybody on set is not going is something we can talk about later. Everybody on set is not going to be the best to work with, and all these things, but waking up and going to set is so much more fulfilling for me than waking up and going to a job, especially corporate.
Speaker 2:With your passion, because I love having this conversation about passion. I think passion can be described in many different ways personally, career-wise, friends and family. When you compare it to when you started to now, do you feel like it has been the same or it has strengthened, and how has it served you and how does it continue to serve you?
Speaker 3:I think, just like I said, just waking up and doing, something that you're passionate about is is I have sisters that one is a teacher and another is a nurse. They have one. My older sister, nevis, she has three kids, and my younger sister, she has two kids. Um, you know, they can, they, they, they, they always congratulate me on how I'm just pursuing my dream. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:It's just like wow, you're out here living your passion and that alone speaks volumes to what goes on in their world. If they're waking up and having a smile, we're all on Instagram together, they're on Instagram. I'm on Instagram, like we're all posting the things that you know highlight our days, instead of the opposite, right, so it looks like we're all like happy in a sense. But when someone says wow, like look at you fulfilling your passion, that says a lot about how they feel about what they're doing. Says a lot about how they feel about what they're doing, and you know, for me, knowing that I'm one of the rare people out here that is really pursuing it in a way. Now, mind you, I know I have a lot of friends that are out here doing it.
Speaker 3:You know excelling Amanda as well. Both of you. You know we're all out here excelling and really freestyling really day by day, and that is the beauty. It's just you waking up and freestyling. It's so fear-based but it's actually so much more fulfilling to wake up and freestyle it versus wake up and know what you got. You know you get on the train at this time, you know you go out the train at this time. You know you get off the, you know you get go out for lunch at this time and then you clock out at that time and you know. Cheers to everyone that does nine to five. But for me personally, I feel like the freedom of waking up and living my life, kind of creating reality almost, is key for me. The ability to create reality, to have a thought and an idea and a dream and to say I want to go do this and for it to come to fruition, is a power that I appreciate.
Speaker 1:I love that and it is so empowering and when you look at that that way and you have that mindset shift and that perspective, what advice do you have for people that they're sitting there and they're like this is not my story, this is not my life, I can't take this desk anymore. But they don't have that courage and that's okay. But they're scared, like how did you pivot? Because I love that you say you can always turn your life around. So what advice do you have? Maybe kind of like a step by step process for our audience. You know, I know there's like 10 million steps about really going for the dream, because it is scary.
Speaker 3:To be honest, there was no step by step. It was a step and just go. It was no plan for me. For me, I was very comfortable where I came from, which is Bowie, maryland. I went to school out there and I was at Department of Justice in DC Union Square and, yeah, I felt very complacent. I had a good job, I was happy, my father made a decent living, so I was living with him. I was in college, I was good, so there was no reason for me to leave. Good, so there was no reason for me to leave. So I had to just jump and go because otherwise, you know, I probably would have still been there and I would have been making a nice little salary by now, probably. But to be honest, there was no step-by-step.
Speaker 3:It's a courage thing. I don't even know if you can teach that. I think for me, I understood the importance of living my purpose and I felt that I had time to do that. Those are two key components. If you find something that you are passionate about or you're like this is what I'm supposed to do with my life, and then, if you feel you have the time or the wherewithal to do it, a part of me felt like whatever it is I wanted to accomplish, I could. So there was an attitude there as well. It wasn't just the jumping off a cliff and just not caring if I land, Because that can be confused with courage. People wow you have so courage.
Speaker 3:You just went out there and just quit your job, but I did it with a positive attitude. I felt that if I do this, something will happen. And there were times where I thought that I was crazy for doing that Multiple times where you're sitting around and things don't work out the way you want it to. In that moment, then, out of nowhere, they do. Not out of nowhere, but from work and consistency. Not out of nowhere, I mean from work and consistency, but Well, that's really inspiring.
Speaker 2:I could relate to that. Leaving the corporate world and taking that risk and I hear it quite often and personally for me, I've taken it for granted the fact that I've done it, because there's a lot of people who have not taken that risk to discover ourselves, to pursue our passions, to give ourselves permission to even explore our passions in many different ways versus what we were told to do in our lifetime. This is what your parents did then. You should follow that path. I'm curious because you talked about things happening, maybe not as you expected it to, but eventually worked out.
Speaker 2:How did you handle those challenges as they came up? Because as actors, we deal with a lot of rejection, especially with the ups and downs of this industry. You may be working, you went and got an award, but what was that like after that? How do you walk in those rooms and deal with you're not the one for this, thank you, and moving on, we went another way. Oh, you're on hold because we get the lot. You're on hold, you're on bail, and then like, well, you just got released. How did you handle those types of challenges throughout your career and what is your advice for up and coming actors who may be struggling with that at that particular moment.
Speaker 3:Well, I think for me, I think I changed my attitude on the whole acting industry early on. I think one of my coaches early on I used to coach at Susan Vassa Studios in New York. I went there for a couple of years in the conservatory and one of the coaches told me that you don't act, you get to act, you get the privilege to act. And that really changed my perspective on, like you know, focusing on getting hired, making my own way, because I was also, you know, doing off-Broadway plays and I was, you know, doing improv little sketches here around the city and you know, I was doing my own thing as well as auditioning and getting better at auditioning, because it is a thing where, if you're not booking, you might not be good at auditioning, which is a thing I didn't realize. It's a whole separate tool and once I started strengthening that, I started seeing my booking rate went up, mainly because of the attitude I had towards each audition and also just becoming better at them. So when you approach it as if like, okay, I know whatever happens, they're going to be like wow, this man can act. And as long as I approach it that way and as long as I do everything that's on the paper, because a lot of people don't. A lot of people try to be so unique and different. Because a lot of people don't, a lot of people try to be so unique and different. But really, if you just do what's on the paper, most of the time it's going to be unique just in general, just because you are. There's no other person other than you. So just do that, just the basic. Do what's on the paper. 70% of people don't do that. So just do what's on the paper for me, right. And just have a positive attitude, knowing that if I audition well, that's good enough, no-transcript. And now it took me some years to get through that because in the beginning I was like, oh, I'm about to blow up, I'm about to be lit, what I'm out of here.
Speaker 3:I felt very confident, I felt very arrogant, I felt like I knew more than I could. You know what I mean. I needed to be humbled in ways that this industry will humble you and you be the next. You know avail, check and all these things. You know it humbles you. So, yeah, positive attitude and just auditioning well, but not just a positive attitude, just an attitude knowing that you are for hire and this is what you signed up for. Like, your job is to audition. That's your job. And when you book a job, then you become a private contractor. You know what I mean. But until then, your your job is auditioning, because you're literally looking for work as a job. You know until you know, until you write your own thing, or until you become a name or you know. Whatever happens first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah true?
Speaker 1:yeah, no, it's very inspiring that. That was a big shift for me, finding the freedom in auditioning. I wasn't booking and I wasn't. You know, I was always doing, was on the page, but I was just kind of not being bold enough in some ways. So and it's completely different from when you get on set A lot of times my auditions didn't even match what we did on set. So thank you for sharing that. And also I know it's amazing I want to know about this book. I want to know more about what inspired it. You know, based on a true love story. I love love. We were talking about how I write love letters on my typewriter.
Speaker 3:I know that's dope, that's so cool. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it's mainly about a young man looking for love, a young man seeking marriage and just wanting to learn. Let kids, young men specifically, young black men specifically, to know that it's okay to want to love, it's masculine actually to want a family and want a partner. Whatever partner you desire, it's okay to want. That. You know what I mean. And it's not feminine to think about things like that. So that's pretty much what I have for this book. I mean this is the hard copy of it. It's currently on Amazon right now and there's a picture section in the back characters.
Speaker 3:This book was actually signed by some of the people from my book, tequila Mockingbird, from the show I just did and, yeah, you know, with that tour I was able to actually go across the country and tour at multiple schools. I've been to maybe at least 60 schools around the country just touring and telling principals about my book. I've been to St Louis, north Carolina, dc, california. I mean just so many places, you know, and the joy and the kids faces, like hearing about, like what they think about it, just it. For me it's like it's one of those things. It's like okay, this topic is important to a lot of people, but a lot of people don't talk about it. You know and this is also a kid's version of my TV pilot I wrote a TV pilot based on the same premise, but it's a young, older man, um who's?
Speaker 3:Who's basically experiencing the same thing, like, if you think, joan from girlfriends, you know his quest on finding his dream girl and I also just wanted that premise to be. You know, it's okay for a man to look for that and we don't really have that going for us. Like in this, like if you, if you've watched a lot of shows it's not that many of male perspective on the love journey, you know, and it's something light, but it's also something very important. It is something that can glue us all together. You know, if we get better with relating with each other and focus on the things that matter, which is love, honestly, in my opinion, I don't want to, you know, but in my opinion I think that you know it is beautiful out.
Speaker 3:You know Janelle was just talking about. You know, her partner getting her a typewriter and her him remembering that a year ago. You know, and just that little stuff is what keeps you going through those no's, and you know what I mean. Like like, after that, you wouldn't care, audition, what, what? You wouldn't even care, you care it freezes time, things like that. So those are the things that I kind of want to get back to the forefront, and I feel like it's missing from just the messaging that is out there right now.
Speaker 2:Listen, I appreciate you having that conversation so openly about love. That is a big conversation with a lot of people I've sit down and talk about. What is self-love, what is love amongst your friends? What is love amongst your family? What is love amongst a partner? What does that look like? What does that feel like?
Speaker 2:And I think there is a disconnect, specifically amongst at least for me, being black and Puerto Rican. There is this stigma around we can't be loved for who we are because we're so masculine and so strong. So the fact that you brought up because I had this conversation the other day with a guy and we were talking about love and he defined love as feminine I said but why does it have to be feminine? It can also be masculine. He said well, no, I associate that with nurturing. I said, yes, but masculinity can also be nurturing. And I get the fact that there's this common through line that masculinity is about protection and then women are seen as nurturing. So we have that dynamic and it comes together beautifully. But why does it have to be so one-sided? Why can't love be seen as also masculine and be nurtured in that way? And so I love that you mentioned that because, see, what I was saying made sense, and I know I'm speaking from a woman's perspective, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be considered vulnerable and soft. I get that, but it can also be connecting. It can also be something that is.
Speaker 2:The commonality between all of us is love. We all want to be loved, we all want to feel love. We all want to give love, whether we admit that or not. But love is one of the most important things that we can ever experience and share with other people in our lifetime. But we're being told what love is instead of allowing ourselves to explore what love is, because we have past experiences, we have family trauma, we have social media telling us what it is and glorifying it like it's just gifts or it's wealth or it's this, and so they're putting it in our faces and it's not allowing us to make our own opinions and our own decisions about love.
Speaker 2:And so I appreciate that you have had that conversation and running that conversation, especially with the youth, so that the next generation can have these conversations and feel comfortable in relationships and nurture that love with each other. And sometimes a woman has to be masculine and the man can be a little bit more feminine in his moment and live in that, and it's okay. But it's like no. Men are meant to be strong and women are meant to be soft and tender and ladylike. What have you learned by writing this book and having these conversations with the younger generation and maybe your friends and family? What have you learned about love, and how are you implementing that in your own life?
Speaker 3:It's a great question. I think, with this, just the labor of love, as far as just working on this and saying like I want this message to touch others, that alone was a labor of love. Like I felt like that is love, like having an intent to make a difference, whether it be personally with another person, whether you want to make that person happy individually or you want to make the world a better place. I feel like this story has taught me where I put love in my life. It has taught me how important it is for me in my life Love is. I guess I will put that at the top of me of my personal life and just writing this book and having this premise has gotten me to understand that.
Speaker 3:You know, and it's it's interesting throughout my kids, as a kid, I used to always want to be in a relationship. I was, I was in a relationship, so I've been in a five-year relationship, been in a two-year relationship relationships. I've been in a five-year relationship, been in a two-year relationship. I just finished a tour, so before that tour, I was in a relationship for a year and a half and once I got on that tour, it was hard for me to maintain a relationship, honestly, because I was on a tour for a year and a half and it was a national tour and we were kind of going through our ups and downs prior to that.
Speaker 3:So I will say, just being able to be an advocate for it and speak from a male's perspective has shown me that you don't necessarily have to be a perfect person to talk about love, you know. You don't necessarily have to be this, you know, guru or this person has been in love and been in a relationship for 30 years to express how you feel about it. And that was okay for me, because afterwards, you know, when we, when we, you know broke up, I felt weird about even putting a book out like this, you know and, and doing so it let me know, like if it's okay to even talk about this, you know and and still not understand yourself. You know the road and um the trials that it takes. You know road and um the trials that it takes, you know.
Speaker 3:So for me, I'm on that road and then discovering myself and learning what I need and how I can better serve someone else, you know, um. So yeah, I mean it's kind of been a a eat, pray, love, low, low key situation. You know what I mean. Like I'm just there eating and praying, and just you know what I mean. Like I'm just there eating and praying, and just you know I'm saying oh my god, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:I'm with that, yeah, I know, for real. But oh, okay, okay, two, two questions. Well, one, what is the most powerful feedback or something surprised that surprised you maybe, from the kids that they said, and then also, like we talk about love languages, I want to know what you think like, oh my god, it's the most loving thing a person can do. So this is the burning questions.
Speaker 3:Uh, as far as kids go, uh, shout out to my sister shell, she uh is a teacher. She's a teacher in oklahoma at kip uh, I believe it's kindergarten to like third grade. Anyway, she read my book in one of the classes and their reaction was just so. They were so happy because it rhymes, so it's a poetry book, and so there's a lot of moments in here where kids can like read along and there's just moments where I kind of drag it out Like what's the line in here, if I can remember offhand, but it was just a moment within the book that the kids like really jumped and I was happy because I wrote that specifically to get a reaction from them and they all laughed.
Speaker 3:And you know, overall kids don't really have a full understanding of love, so much you know, especially Kate through. You know, overall kids don't really have a full understanding of love so much you know, especially k through. You know fifth grade. But they understand that it's powerful. You know, when you talk about it it's like it's like it's a lot of yeah and then love, and then you can hear like a pin drop. It's like they know the power of it. So I love that effect.
Speaker 3:And yeah, I mean, so far, you know, I haven't really gone to many schools to read per se. I've more so gone in to talk to principals to get them to get the book, and a lot of them have gotten the schools and I've gotten good feedback from the teachers. But as far as like reading it, that's what I want to do in 2025, do more readings and to get actual reactions. But for the most part I've read to a few classes, maybe like two so far, two or three and the reactions that I've gotten were great they love the book, it's funny and you know, it has a funny little twist in it that I add.
Speaker 3:As far as my love language, I feel like for me and it's funny that you asked that because I've just finished the book the Five Love Languages. I believe it's that book, I finished it maybe a month ago but I took away from it I'm like, wow, you really can feel a way based on how someone shows you love For me. I think quality time is something that I appreciate. If someone sets aside to hang out with me or like go to this event with me, or like just talk on the phone with me, or just you know someone who wants to just do that is there's no intention behind it. You know, a gift giving someone a gift is like I feel like when you're in a relationship and someone remembers that you like typewriters, of course I want that typewriter. If you think about it three years later, of course Give me that shit. But you know, overall, I feel like in the beginning process, quality time is something that I appreciate, you know, and in this book I mean that's kind of how they met.
Speaker 3:I mean they randomly met Devin and Tiffany. They randomly met on a train at. Devin and Tiffany. They randomly met on a train and you know, prior to Devin was very confused and very just sad about the prospect of like finding this dream girl. And you know, having a talk with his sister, andrea, she was like man, maybe, maybe you should just change your perspective on it. You know, a few weeks to go by randomly meets this girl on the train, you know, and the rest is history. Things like that, just a simple perspective, can change what you attract. But yeah, love language would be quality time. I think quality time for me is everything. That's how I know you love me.
Speaker 2:Alyssa.
Speaker 3:I'm here for you.
Speaker 2:Now that Mel brought that up, mel, what is yours besides gift-giving, because I know you love me. I'm here for you. Now that Nell brought that up, nell, what is yours besides gift-giving? Because I know that that's the thing for you. But now I want to explore this. Wait, let's share.
Speaker 3:Let's share Nell.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, I mean. So Amanda did this real sweet thing where you know we would go on trips and she would come down with a little coffee and snacks for me and she just really pays attention. So I think, why the typewriter gift? I think it's when I feel like people see me or hear me, like my needs, because I'm such a boss bitch and I just make stuff happen for myself.
Speaker 3:What is that called? What is that called? Is that called? What is that called?
Speaker 1:is it um?
Speaker 1:acts of service maybe that's what it is, but it felt like just like it's. I do so much for myself and I'm always like, oh, I have to get it for myself, I have to do it for myself. Nobody supports me. I'm all you know. That's a whole unpacking of my childhood. But so when people kind of like see little things that I like, one time I walked in the room and like Amanda noticed that TV was super loud and that was kind of I'm like super sensitive to sound. So she was like she could tell in my body language, like she's really observant. So I really appreciate when people like observe a change in me and I'm trying to hide it and they're like, no, you need food and you need to lay down. Like mel, she's there somewhere. She's like you need to take a nap, here's a blanket, so I I don't know what that is. So the typewriter acts of service.
Speaker 1:I would say, I would say yeah, yeah, the typewriter was a gift, but I was like, oh, oh, you pay attention to like who I am and what lights me up and what I need, and like that's cool. So what about you, amanda?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all you got me blushing over here. I didn't realize I do such things for my friends, so like I feel.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah you did that for yo, so when for me? Yo, so when I was. We recently went to Jennifer Hudson's show and I have my book in my hand, because I wanted to talk to Jennifer Hudson and she was just like, hey, yo, my man, we need this man to get his book. It's gonna happen, it's gotta happen, she was just out here telling people hey, you gonna get my man his book, okay, Don't make me.
Speaker 2:I was like my man, I am an advocate for my friends. All my friends will know I will advocate for you, probably before I advocate for myself, that's great.
Speaker 2:Because I want to see my friend shine and even if I just met you, like, oh, you have an idea, do it, don't hesitate, just do it, just do it, because so often we live in fear of the external validation, what people will think about us, you know, if we're going to get rejected, and it's like so fucking, what if they do? But there's going to be a group of people who are going to freaking love you for all that you offer and all that you do when they see you. So let them see. And for me, I think my no, I know, my act of love is support, really like really accepting me as I am in all stages of my life, because I will be that person that's there for you. And then I'll be like, all right, I need time to be by myself, and they know that. And I love that. When people understand that and don't take it personally, it's like, hey, I just need some time to recalibrate and reconnect with my inner self and let it go. Or, except the fact that when I get scared or really happy, I'll start crying, and it's like, yeah, that's just who I am. It's something that I love about myself and I've done so much work on accepting me as I am, even through my past pain and trauma and all the things that we have to deal with as adults and human beings. I've done the work. So when I am accepting that and someone sees that I've accepted that and they accept it, and it just feels so good because I feel seen, I feel accepted, I feel heard without having to say it, and it takes time and I'm a very well, y'all know this.
Speaker 2:I'm a very guarded person, but that's because I love so hard and you know what I mean. Again, I'm an advocate for my people. That's it. I'm an advocate. What you need, I got you. I'm there. Call me at two o'clock in the morning, call me at four in the morning. I'm like hello, I will pick up. I may not be happy at the moment. I'm like all right, give me a second, let me get it together. What do you need? What do you want? What would you like? Okay, what could I do? And so I'm that person.
Speaker 2:And so it's nice to have that reciprocated and feel it genuinely not forced, because I never want anyone to feel forced that they have to do that for me, never, ever. And vice versa. I don't want to feel forced to do something because that is conditional. I am not a person that does well with conditions. In that way, in order to get this, you got to do this for me and I'm like that's not genuine, that's not true, especially when it comes to relationships.
Speaker 2:I like that honesty. I like that. Show me who you are. It's okay, I am the last person to judge you. I might make fun of it, and that's okay, because you can make fun of me too, and that's fine. But you can be your whole self with me and I will be like yeah, go for it. You want to jump in the middle of the street naked in the rain? Do it. I'll be right there, right with you. Sure, like I don't do what you do and live your life because at the end of the day, we're all going to probably die by ourselves or it's going to be over and no one's going to matter. It's not going to matter.
Speaker 3:Janelle is having a blast over there.
Speaker 1:Because we have this conversation all the time and we talk about this, and I think you know, I think what we want to do, yeah, I have a very loud laugh, so just keeping it over here.
Speaker 2:No, no, share it, share it that was the goal for our podcast too is to really share our authentic selves. I think as actors, sometimes we can feel performative in our lives because there is a certain etiquette that we have to abide by and rules and all these things, and it's like it feels good to just like have these conversations without being judged or ridiculed for these thoughts. And so, you know, we have a mutual friend, giviad, and he's been on my live before and we've talked about like that brotherly love, that manly love, and I loved having that conversation because I don't think it's talked about enough, because women, we do it for each other. We have the competitive Society puts us against each other, for sure, it pits us against each other, but at the end of the day, I think our love and hugging each other and holding hands, that thing is very accepted amongst women, but for men it's like, oh, don't do such things. You know, hugging each other, embracing each other, it's like that's not manly enough.
Speaker 2:And so I loved having that conversation. I kind of want to put that on you. How have back to your book, how has you been exploring love, nurtured or hindered your relationship with your like your friends, and your male friends specifically. We're getting deep today, aren't we?
Speaker 3:For me, yeah, I mean, I don't mind going deep. For me it's like I'm learning that I'm a lot more vulnerable with a woman than I am with my male friends. Maybe it's the nurturing aspect, but there are some friends that I can talk to Like Giviara was somebody that I spoke to about a lot, a lot about love, so there are certain people that you can talk to about that, but it's very narrow in comparison to women. Um, if that answers your question it answers the question.
Speaker 2:It's like yeah, there we do, but we don't like it's, you know the locker room conversations, that kind of stuff I I get it.
Speaker 2:It's Like it's you know, the locker room conversations, that kind of stuff, I get it. It's something that I want to explore more on the podcast as well, with just our guests and love, and how that can transition to our passion and our humanity. What I know is, as artists, you created that book because we have to keep creating and telling stories that matter to us. That's what matters, that's why we're artists, that's why we can't be stuck behind a desk. I could not have been stuck behind my desk because it drove me crazy to the point that I wanted to pull my hair out and I was absolutely depressed, absolutely stressed out to the point that I was oh yeah, towards the end of my career, to nine to five. I was severely depressed because it wasn't fulfilling me and I felt like I was being tugged away from my career, away from my purpose. I was playing the role of like, I gotta get a nine to five because it's consistent, and this is what, when you retire, when you're 65 now, which would probably be about 80, because they're going to, let us live as long as we can and work. But at that moment that was kind of inbred in me and so being able to be artists. Like Janelle, I know she's embarking on a beautiful journey and sharing her story with her family and I just commend all of us to do that as artists.
Speaker 2:If you have a story, tell it. It matters. There is someone out there who needs to hear your story. That's where our voices matter and that's why it's so important to find our passions, to do that inner work to heal the trauma, so that when we can have these conversations and talk about the pain and suffering, it no longer weighs on us, it no longer feels like a brick wall and we no longer feel like we have to carry it for other people, but we can share it so other people can let go of that burden as well. Because we carry a lot of baggage as artists, because we care so much. We care so much, we observe everything, we feel everything, whether we admit it or not, and we have to. For this art to showcase and reflect reality, to reflect the nuances of a human being. We can be angry but still live in the sadness of it. That's the duality and the triplity of whatever those words are for the person right? We all have many versions of ourselves.
Speaker 2:I'm so grateful that you are sharing that story with the younger generation, especially amongst young boys, and then encouraging them to have that conversation and therefore encouraging me to have that conversation with other people. Yeah, and it encourages me to want to share my story and my point of view of things without impeding that on others and just like here's my story. This is where I came from, this is me, or you know, and yeah, I just I wanted to share that and thank you for that, because it's a beautiful thing that we all get to do that and I don't take it for granted and I want us to all continue to do that. That's why we created Mindset Artistry. It's to not only talk about the business, which we should go back to in a minute, but the business side of it, but talking about the mental side of it, talking about the connection of it, talking about the humanity of it, because we are artists and we are the most important factors in humanity, because we get to share the story.
Speaker 2:If you think about what cavemen back in the day sitting by the fire, what they do? They tell stories. That's what we're doing. We are the storytellers, yeah, amongst the fire and writing it on the wall, carving it on the wall that's what we're doing. We are the storytellers, yeah, amongst the fire. And writing it on the wall, carving it on the wall that's what we're doing right now. That's literally what we're doing, and such a gift it is to be able to do that.
Speaker 2:I am like, yes, this is it. It's invigorating, it's exciting. Now I want to pass it to you because I want to jump into a little bit of business. I want to jump into a little bit of business. Andre, briefly, in another conversation we had, is he understood that this career is a business?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and the balance of that. So I'm always talking about the business craft and self-care. Craft, we all get on that. We love that Self-care hopefully some of us find it sooner than I did. But the business a lot of artists are. Sometimes I've seen two sides One, they don't feel like they have what it takes to be a business person. They don't think they're capable. Or two, they're afraid that they're going to offend somebody. But they don't have the mindset like this is a business and like you're saying it's a job, like auditioning is the job, and then you're a contractor and I'm the solution to your problem. Like here you go. But I would love advice that you have for all creatives regarding the business side and have it to have that mindset, because you have a beautiful resume here and that's because you believed in yourself and you showed up and you're like I'm ready to work. So what advice do you have for people that have some fear about it? Or maybe they're like I don't even know what type of perspective to have.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, you know just simple stuff, like replying very fast. I mean you know if you're lucky enough to get reps replying fast to their emails. You know turning your auditions in on time. I mean the basic things in order to be taken serious, like having your resume. Even if it's like five things on it. You want that thing to look polished, you want it to look good, you want it to be all the same font and make sure everything is crisp and headshots taking the best. You know, um me, I kind of regret it now but I didn't really have any professional headshot, uh, photographers for a lot of my first time being shot and I felt like that helped me back from being like just being clicked on as far as like my profile or just uh, I don't know. When you have a strong headshot, I'm learning that it also increases your book booking rate as well. Having a professional shot, um, yeah, I'll put a pin on that and um, overall, just yeah, I mean just having the understanding that this is a business. So, if you're seeking a job, you want to put your best foot forward. You want to have the best audition. You want to have the best marketing tools. You want to try to get rep if you can. If you can't get rep, you know, have some monologues handy. Just try to showcase your talent any way you can. For me, I also read some books on this as far as, like, you know the producer aspects and as far as, like, behind the scenes, with crediting and things like just having your you know your, your your name and slot it in the beginning of the show or at the end of the show or in the opening credits versus you can put you can be and Andre Ozeem or Bob, you know what I mean. It's just so many credits, just so many things, just alone outside of the acting industry, that I took time to learn and that I still need to learn. I need to learn. It's so much I need to learn in this industry. But me wanting to explore outside of acting is a part of the business. You know you. Being curious outside of acting is a part of the business. You know you, being curious outside of acting is a part of it. You know you're not going to always have the right answers, but just the basics turning your auditions in on time, replying fast to your team, being ready, constantly working on something, constantly reading something you know, constantly picking up a play or a script, you know, and just reading Like every day. I read a TV pilot a day and I watch that TV pilot and that's just. I mean, some people hear that and they're like, oh my God, that's amazing and that's not really. It takes about two and a half hours to do that, you know. It takes about an hour to maybe read a pilot. If it's an hour pilot, then an hour to maybe watch the show. That's two hours of my day. Now I try to put in about eight hours a day of acting as well. So that's another thing.
Speaker 3:For instance, this To Kill a Mockingbird tour I auditioned for this on Broadway, I was pinned, but didn't get it. And I auditioned for the tour in 2022, was pinned, didn't get it. And I auditioned for the tour in 2022, was pinned, didn't get it. And then I randomly, in February 2023, randomly got an email for an offer and then I had to go up two weeks later to start rehearsal, up like two weeks later to start rehearsal. So I had to like really work on the character, like and be ready for two weeks, because once you get, you know, two weeks come, there's rehearsals. Rehearsals is really, they're testing to see if you have what it takes to be a replacement for the show. You know what I mean. So for me, if I wasn't reading prior to that and if I wasn't auditioning and keeping that mentality positive, even though I definitely felt low and did not see that coming at all for eight for office this is Telsey office, by the way, telsey in New York City, the casting office they um said they would circle back and they did. You know. Shout out to Adam Caldwell, actually the casting director, you know he, he randomly reached back out and I was ready.
Speaker 3:But you know, in the midst of me being negative, I still was preparing myself. You know, it's okay to be negative. It's kind of unrealistic to just walk around with happy thoughts and positive thoughts all day. It's almost impossible. So there's times where I did feel like I was not going to make it, but luckily I had the discipline and the passion to just keep, you know, working on my craft and keep working at it.
Speaker 3:And an opportunity came and I was prepared for it, you know. And then after that, work begets work, you know. You know that's how it goes. So but yeah, you know, I would just say to anybody who's out here trying to continue and just get their first credit or just get their agent or get their fourth credit, to just keep working on your craft. I mean, we hear that all the time but we don't. A lot of people don't do it.
Speaker 3:You know, in the preparation is what's creating your opportunity. You have to see it from a metaphysical place. You can create reality, like I was touching on before, by preparing for what you want. It's almost as if you already did it. It's like you already got it.
Speaker 3:Hey, actually, you know what? Remember that series regular? They turned you down. You're on set tomorrow. Can you make it? You got to be ready to go tomorrow. Are you ready to be on set tomorrow? If you're not, then you cannot complain about not being is fast. Like when I shot Winning Time, I was very fast. You know it was a very fast thing because that was a star-started show. So the shots weren't necessarily on me, because at the moment I'm not a star. You know what I mean. So it ain't about me. I'm lucky enough to be working with Adrian Brody, so you know the shots are about him. He's also one of the executive producers of the show. So when you start to understand that, like you start to understand you have to be on your A game and you have to be ready, and if you show up not ready, that would not look good. So, if anything, the universe is doing you a favor by not allowing you to be not ready, because if you show up and you're not ready, then they're going to remember.
Speaker 1:My God, and it's so true it kills the nerves. I have a funny story. So one time I went in for a Peloton commercial. Now let me tell you I've done a lot of spinning classes, but I went even like the week before to make sure I could really do it. But you know, there was a time where I was going like I don't know four or five times a week and then maybe at that time it was only like you know, every other week. And then you know, maybe some weeks were twice. And then I get in there I look like Bambi because they put these shoes on me and I was nervous, and then I'm like skating over like the bike, I can't click in. So I think that's the acting reps for me.
Speaker 1:It's like you know, I love that. You're talking about how it creates opportunity, amanda, and I believe in that wholeheartedly. But also it's just like then, when you finally get that opportunity, you can do it. You know, dancers and musicians like my acting teacher, william Esper, barbara Marchand she was always like actors are the laziest of the artists. Let me tell you, because it's true, as a dancer, like we're always on the fundamentals musicians, they do scales even when you're like playing the top orchestra in the world Right. So thank you for bringing that up Amanda.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's stellar. I hope everyone takes that into consideration because it even hit me in the heart. I was like yep, got to up it. Basically, it's like dressing for the job you want, not the job you have, and I've learned that from working in the corporate world is just thinking about that. If you want to be a serious regular, what does a serious regular do on a daily basis? How are they preparing? How are they living their lives? How do they see the business? How are they communicating with their colleagues, with their representatives? How are they seeing this business? Because at the end of the day, if you get thrown to the wolves, you're going to either get chewed up and devoured or you're going to be able to command them and be like chill, you over there, you over there and you can walk with the pack.
Speaker 2:And a lot of times I was very lucky enough earlier on to understand the business because someone taught me the business and just the basics of understanding the headshots and resumes and back when people were mailing those in and doing you know, thank you cards and you may not get the yes now, but do great work and you will get the yes later because they remember. It's their job to remember you. So it's like Mel Mack, one of our casting directors, has been on and she's been just a good friend for both of us. She said book the room, that's what you do. You book the room. It's not about sometimes booking the job, it's booking that room. And so, putting aside all these superficial I want to be famous. It's like put that aside and get back to the root of it all is the storytelling, is the craft of it, is the acting of it, is the performance of it, is the camaraderie of it, is the collaboration of it. It's all of that and being able to do that. So thank you for reiterating what we constantly say on this podcast, but I feel like it goes through one ear and out through the other when people are listening. So I hope that that resonates, because I also need to hear it sometimes, because we have those moments where I'm like I feel really low today, but it's like slow down, take a look back at how far you've come. You're no longer where you were. Remember how far you come and remember now what's the next step, what's the next level, and so I appreciate that. You said something and I wanted to talk about it.
Speaker 2:As actors, we have to not know just how to be an actor. We have to also be our CEO of our brand and understanding the business and understanding what it is to get those credits, those points, those backend points, all those things, and to be able to talk that lingo. And even if you don't have reps, it's important to get this information because then you can rep for yourself, you can pitch yourself to producers, pitch yourself to directors, pitch yourself to all these things, and so it's always something to learn as actors, as creators. It's always something to learn because we're all in that same boat and it's never not going to know it all. It's impossible. Because if you did, then what's the point?
Speaker 2:What's your advice for actors who, because you've worked in both theater and now film and TV, what is your advice for understanding the dynamics and of working on set versus working in theater? Because this is a very different muscle. It's a very different muscle when you're working on theater, where you have to perform twice a day in front of a live audience and if you mess up, boy, you better catch yourself and hope that your other, you know your castmates catching with you too, and whereas, like on set, you can. Just you can mess up a line and go line, stay in it. And understanding camera, yeah, you know they're doing the over the shoulder of a character instead of looking at their right eye, you look at their left eye so you can get a full profile, versus looking at the right, because then you get the shadow. It's just like those little things. Those things matter. So, yeah, what is your advice for actors who are, yeah, want to know the difference and what could they apply to today and work on?
Speaker 3:It's a huge difference but it's the same. It's acting and you can. You know people want to see the truth, whether it's right here in front of you on camera or back in the top row at whatever theater. You know people want to be in the truth. So, numero uno, just be truthful and always be true to the story and to the circumstance. The difference I would say with theater and camera for me theater is more live. It's people's reactions.
Speaker 3:You hear different reactions to different things, especially when you're on a Broadway tour and you're doing a national tour. You can go to Mississippi and this line will hit different versus being in St Louis or versus being in Atlanta or Florida. Certain things will hit different. So every day you're with the same material but it's different reactions and it's a different show every night Versus camera. Camera is very much the opposite. I mean you can get a script change the day of the opposite. I mean you can get a script change the day of Things happen. You might not get your shot in that day or you might not get your shot in in general because the director didn't make enough time to get this shot in and it's very much schedule-based. If they have a week and a half to shoot an episode, they have to get a certain amount of pages done, so by the time they get to your scene. If they got 16 more pages in the rest of the day and they have like three hours left, you might only get like two takes and you don't know which take they're going to use. So that is definitely about being truthful. I'm not going to say you need to be more truthful on camera, but camera don't lie and it sees everything.
Speaker 3:And with camera versus theater, another thing is that when people are talking and interacting with theater, you see everybody. You see everybody's reaction. Right, if there's 20 actors on stage, you'll see all 20 characters' reactions based on what just happened Versus camera. There's one reaction, it's yours, or maybe two other people in the shot, or maybe a few other people in the shot. You're not seeing everyone in the shot at once, you know, unless it's a wide shot or something to that effect, but that's just like a quick thing Theater the whole time. You see everyone, you know. So those are key differences. So when you're on stage, you really have to be moment to moment the whole play, because everyone someone will see if you doze off or someone will see if you.
Speaker 3:You know if the thing and the pacing is everything as well. You know, especially with a commercial show like To Kill a Mockingbird, it's a Broadway show, so it's commercial, so that means they got two shows in that day, so these shows are about three hours. That show, specifically, was about three hours and like 15 minutes or something, with the 18-minute intermission. So there's tickets being sold, so this show normally needs to be done within this time. So when you're on stage you're keeping it moved in. But it's so it's. The pacing is there. The audience would never know that you guys are on schedule.
Speaker 3:You know, and the thing about theater is just y'all, it's just the actors, just you and the other actors. Your stage manager is in the back, the director is gone in the back or not there for the most part. After the play is up, the playwright is gone, so it's only the actors that are on stage. Versus film and TV, everyone's there the director's there, the writer's there, the producer's there, the producer's son is there Watching the monitors like Dad. I don't like that. It's just so much more happening. So the different mediums they're fun and I don't even know which one I like more.
Speaker 3:But I do love theater for what it's made me as an actor. I feel like I can pick up a script and learn it immediately. I feel like I can. You know, a monologue isn't hard for me. You know, when you do a play, you have to learn the whole play. No, you have to know the whole play. You can't just learn your lines in a play. It's not like with film, tv. You kind of just you know. You can't just wing it and learn your lines, hear it for the other person's line and then cut Great Play. You got to know the play. You got to know when you go out for your cue. You got to know when to leave for your cue. You got to know where to exit, where to enter. There's just so many things that you have to know in comparison to TV and film, whereas you don't necessarily have to know your exit and interests as much.
Speaker 2:You know that made absolute sense. Lay it down, let them know what it is. This is the reality of a working actor. You put in the work and you get it back Like that's just, you don't have to get ready If you're already ready. You know, that says I'd be ready, you don't have to get ready, right? So I love that. Thank you so much for joining us. One last thing how can they find you? I know we're going to put all the links in the comments and all that but, definitely.
Speaker 2:You know all the links.
Speaker 3:All the things. All the things Instagram I would just say Instagram Androzeem, or my website, androzeemcom. I'm basic, andreozimcom. I'm basic. I'm mad, basic. I don't have Twitter. I'm terrible. Yeah, I used to have it. Yeah, I used to have all the things I use Facebook more for, like family. You know, what I mean that's like for my family. And then, oh, and this is a QR code for the book that's on right now Barnes and Nobles.
Speaker 2:Let's get him on is Jennifer Hudson Show, because I dropped her the book Jennifer Hudson. Let's get him on the show.
Speaker 3:Things like that, I mean just like really quick, just things like that. Working with people years later after meeting them. That's a whole other story, but it has happened to me and I'm just like every time. I'm just like every time, I'm just like, wow, you don't even know, I was the guy in the back, and then now we in the same trailer, you know. So yeah, hollywood or entertainment is interesting that way. You, you watch the people that you grew up and then you can work closely.
Speaker 3:Aside with them in a very intimate way yeah closely aside with them in a very intimate way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's weird. It's weird A couple of times. It's nuts.
Speaker 3:It doesn't feel like real life, You're just like what yeah?
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we get to do it. We get to do it every day. I appreciate it. Thank you so much, and that's that. This is the episode. We'll see you next time. Thank you everybody. Bye.
Speaker 1:And that's a wrap on this episode of Mindset Artistry Podcast. Don't forget to like, share and subscribe.
Speaker 2:Catch us every Thursday for a new episode to help you master the art of your mindset. Got it? Yes, okay, cool.