Mindset Artistry
The Alchemy of Character Creation in the Eyes of Jen Jacob
When the spotlight hits, how does an actor transform into the characters we love and sometimes love to hate? Jen Jacob, seasoned star of "Law and Order: Organized Crime" and "Blue Bloods," joins us to unveil the curtain on this intricate process. With a career that spans television blockbusters and the raw authenticity of her one-woman show "Forrest," Jen's journey is a masterclass in intuition, dedication, and the art of making bold choices that resonate on and off the screen. Her insights into the audition orbit are a treasure trove for actors of all experiences—proving that the leap from script to heart-stopping performance is a blend of method and magic.
Navigating the labyrinth of Hollywood demands persistence, and Jen's anecdotes are a testament to this. From embracing her unique instincts to refining the nuances of a character post-audition, she demonstrates the evolution of an actor's craft. Our conversation travels through the technical transformation of self-taping—once a chore, now an art form—reminding us that the camera is simply a doorway to an actor's soul. For those with dreams wrapped in stage curtains, Jen's experiences underscore the necessity of networking, not as a sterile strategy, but as genuine, artistic communion.
The stage is set, but what happens when the script takes a backseat to a moment of pure improvisation? Jen's vivid recollections from "Blue Bloods" touch upon the synergy that occurs when an actor brings their special flair to a role, sometimes altering the story's very fabric. As we wrap our chat, the symbiotic relationship between community feedback, continuous learning, and the joy of live theater emerges as a beacon for any artist walking this unpredictable path. Remember, the acting world thrives on connection—each conversation a thread in a larger, vibrant tapestry. Join us, as we celebrate the journeys, the struggles, and the triumphs, woven by those who dare to step into another's shoes, if only until the final curtain falls.
When the spotlight hits, how does an actor transform into the characters we love and sometimes love to hate? Jen Jacob, seasoned star of "Law and Order: Organized Crime" and "Blue Bloods," joins us to unveil the curtain on this intricate process. With a career that spans television blockbusters and the raw authenticity of her one-woman show "Forrest," Jen's journey is a masterclass in intuition, dedication, and the art of making bold choices that resonate on and off the screen. Her insights into the audition orbit are a treasure trove for actors of all experiences—proving that the leap from script to heart-stopping performance is a blend of method and magic.
Navigating the labyrinth of Hollywood demands persistence, and Jen's anecdotes are a testament to this. From embracing her unique instincts to refining the nuances of a character post-audition, she demonstrates the evolution of an actor's craft. Our conversation travels through the technical transformation of self-taping—once a chore, now an art form—reminding us that the camera is simply a doorway to an actor's soul. For those with dreams wrapped in stage curtains, Jen's experiences underscore the necessity of networking, not as a sterile strategy, but as genuine, artistic communion.
The stage is set, but what happens when the script takes a backseat to a moment of pure improvisation? Jen's vivid recollections from "Blue Bloods" touch upon the synergy that occurs when an actor brings their special flair to a role, sometimes altering the story's very fabric. As we wrap our chat, the symbiotic relationship between community feedback, continuous learning, and the joy of live theater emerges as a beacon for any artist walking this unpredictable path. Remember, the acting world thrives on connection—each conversation a thread in a larger, vibrant tapestry. Join us, as we celebrate the journeys, the struggles, and the triumphs, woven by those who dare to step into another's shoes, if only until the final curtain falls.
Welcome to the Mindset Artistry podcast. This is Amanda DeWoe, a self-authenticity prosperity life coach and actor or actress per your reference.
Speaker 2:And I'm Janelle Kaloski, a career and mindset coach and an actor as well. We are your hosts and we're here to flip your mindset, to teach you the artistry of what we learned, to keep your mind in check Over the course of our lives, we've taken on the journey of healing, living and being authentically ourselves as we successfully build our individual careers. This podcast is designed for you so you can discover your goals and courageously reach them at your highest potential, while being 100,000% yourself.
Speaker 1:What you'll get from us is real dirty and a little well more like a lot of quirky.
Speaker 2:Along with empathy edge and a safe space that holds hashtag no judgment.
Speaker 1:If you're ready to build a mindset that is unapologetically you and excel beyond the stars, you're in the right place. We're so excited to have you here. Now let's dive in Hashtag just saying Really, really excited about this episode today. So welcome back to Mindset Artistry, and we have a bit of a superstar here. I call Jen Jacob. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I had the pleasure of meeting her at Scott Freeman's studio what was it? A Freeman event on a Friday, and she came in and she had such an essence and glow about her that was so grounded and so authentic that I was like, oh, I got to have to get to know her and the information that you were providing about self-taping, which we'll talk about, I was like she has to be on the podcast. And so Jen Jacob has had a four episode, four episode arch y'all on Law and Order, organized Crime. She did Blue Bloods. I'm calling her the voice of New York because she's given me the New York accent and all these episodes and girls.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yourself.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I've got the Bronx in me, dolly, and you did Girls as well, and now you have an upcoming one woman show called Forrest. So let's just dive in to your journey and advice for those creative and actors out there and anything that you want to share. But I want to jump right into Law and Order, organized Crime, because full circle Law and Order has been on for decades at this point now, and they had the spin off. What was that journey like, from getting that audition to actually filming four episodes and really being able to expand this character compared to like a day player?
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah, I mean from the audition. That was kind of one of my auditions that I'm proud of, because that was a moment that I sent something in when it was due the night before. And first of all, sorry, thank you for having me. This podcast is so amazing and you have such incredibly inspiring people on and you two are so inspiring, so I should have jumped in first with that. But, yeah, I sent in a tape for that part and I sent it in super late at night. My managers didn't even have time to get back to me about it.
Speaker 3:It was due the very next day and I woke up at like five in the morning with this sort of knowing that it wasn't quite there, that it wasn't good enough. And I have the most amazing mother in the whole world and I called her at 7am and I was, like, can you read for me? Like really quick, it's going to be so fast. And she was my reader for the tape that actually got sent in and I did it really quick. I just had like a couple of changes I wanted to make to it and then to book it off of something that I put that extra mile into. I think it goes a long way to say that if your gut is like mmm, it could be better Do it, take it, take your gut up on yourself.
Speaker 1:I love that, I love that. And what was it like filming you know those and preparing for that four episodes of a show, and then being able to live with this character for quite a bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it was. It was the first time that I had had not just it wasn't my first recur, but it was my first recur. That was was much more meaty and really like personally, led the story along and I was acting along powerhouses Chris Maloney and Dennis Leary and definitely walked into it nervous and like, do I even belong here? Can I do this? And just so quickly? I mean, first of all, the generosity of both of those men on set. They're just incredible human beings and they make you feel amazing and I have so many stories about how just incredible they are. But just reminding myself even in the moment of like, actually I deserve to be here and I can do this and the nerves are only getting in the way and don't waste this opportunity to show everybody what I got. And what's cool about that part, too, is it was originally cast as as a possible recur.
Speaker 3:They weren't really sure where it was going and I was lucky that the first episode I shot was with John Paulson directing, who is also one of the executive producers of the show, and I just kind of got in there and I started doing my thing and I'm kind of an improviser and I started improvising some stuff on set and he really responded to it. So he was like let's get her back. So I think I kind of helped create an opening for me to have the writers kind of bounce off some ideas with me and and take this character into a bigger direction. And so it was eye opening for me because I didn't even really know how collaborative network television can be sometimes and it really can. I mean, at least in that experience John was really great about listening to my ideas and obviously that's not the case with every set, but it was with that one, so it was really amazing.
Speaker 2:Thank you for sharing that, jen, and I know that's going to encourage so many of our listeners, because I think, unfortunately, many actors and I've been there a hundred times where fear comes up and you just want to do it right, or if you haven't been on set a lot maybe, or you are afraid to take those chances. And I wanted to go back to what you said in the beginning about your gut, and I love if you could share more with people that are listening the gut, which I equate to intuition, versus fear, because doing a take a hundred times out of fear of it being perfect and right and the right way to get the job versus, like you know what, I got something else in there, because that's really what seems to stump actors and their self tapes is just the fear, right. So love if you could tell us more about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've recently been working as a coach with acting, with auditions, and I help my friends with their own tapes so often. So I've seen and I've experienced myself when someone is just redoing out of fear and it ends up to me. What that looks like is the takes look exactly the same over and over and over and over again. Sure, a word gets perfected here, a flub gets perfected there, a smile looks a little bit better in one than the other. Sure, but ultimately, all the intentions, all the objectives, everything that you've planned out is the same. And so those moments for me are kind of when you say like, okay, stop everything, you're not doing anything different, you know, and there is no perfect. So what are we getting to? For me, I think, the first time I taped it, I did it to be honest, I did it without an accent, I did it from more of like exactly the way it was written, exactly the way that the description was written, and I slept on it and I think I it came out of I had just shot blue bloods, like a few months before, and in that show I had an accent. It was written that way that she was this girl from Ben's and Hearst and I had this realization, I think, overnight that this girl is grittier than I originally thought she is. She's married to a like.
Speaker 3:My storyline on that show is that I married Dennis Leary is like this bad cop undercover as a good cop, and she's wrapped up in that world. And I think I didn't go deep, deep enough, I didn't have the stakes high enough to really be at the heart of who she was, who this girl would be married to someone like that. And so when I re taped it, I had new choices, new director, new voice, new everything, and so could I have booked it the first time around, maybe, but I think it was really knowing what giving them something so specific got them to go like oh yeah, that's her you know, love that because, again, as actors, we fear or we think about and try to anticipate what the casting directors want, what the producers want from this particular character or the story.
Speaker 1:So we're going to give them exactly what they think, we think they want, and then we kind of lose sight of what this character is supposed to be, or we can create and contribute to the character. So I love the fact that you talked about that and I hope everyone takes that to heart would be bold enough to create these characters from truth or from your own experiences, and because that's what art art is a storytelling and being bold in those choices. And they can always tell you to step it down, bring it down, take it back, right, they can always redirect you, but if you're going to give them those bold choices, they go oh, this is an actor, this is a performer, this is someone that's going to be on set, that can go head to head with Christopher Maloney and Dennis Leary, who have been in the industry for decades.
Speaker 3:Right, Right, I think one of my favorite notes an acting teacher ever gave me and I think about it all the time when I tape is have an opinion about everything.
Speaker 3:So that feeds into your stakes, that feeds into the circumstance, that feeds into relationship, but, like, if you get to a line and you don't have an, we're judgmental, like human beings are, so judgmental. We have an opinion about everything and to create a person instead of just a face who's saying words, you have to have your brain, your internal monologue, going at all times. So I think, um, yeah, like, even as the actor, have an opinion about who this person is and what they want and how they are in the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's incredible and then. So I kind of want to circle back now because that's so exciting. I can dive deeper into that, but I definitely want to circle back to how your journey came about of when you first started to be an actor and choose this industry to then booking these blue bloods and the four episode arc. Like what was your journey and did you always know and have the confidence that this was all be all it career for you?
Speaker 3:Well, I wanted to be an actor since I was a very little child. I have a very standard kind of cliche story, like so many of us, that I walked out of the womb wanting to be in front of a camera and that really stemmed for me. I had a really hard time sleeping as a kid and my dad loved movies and he actually went to school to be a director himself and never ultimately went into it, and when I couldn't sleep we would sit together and just through the night watch old musicals. So that was like my first I know it's very sweet my first kind of like intro into the film world and the musical world was really where my love started and it brought me through high school and standard theater programs and regional theater and community theater and camp theater and all those things. And then I went to NYU and I studied at Stella Adler for the four years when I was at NYU Tisch, and then I've been through so many different studios and classes after school. I was really lucky that out of my senior year showcase at NYU I got signed to an amazing manager who just really knew the business and was very well connected and put me through truly a boot camp. The first summer I signed with her. It was the summer after school and this was before self-taping was even really as big as it is now. She would literally send me fake auditions almost every day and get me to tape, tape, tape, tape and she'd give me notes and I thought I have to retape. It was a grueling process but I owe her my work ethic. To be honest, she really matured me in like a summer and where my auditioning kind of started.
Speaker 3:When I first started getting kind of any type of notoriety in the industry or any type of attention in the industry is, I started improvising in my tapes in a way that I don't know that anybody else or many people really were, and I auditioned for a network lead on a pilot. That ultimately, this improv tape that I did in trying to just find my way into the character, got sent up the ranks through NBC and up to producers and some really important people at the industry saw it and got back to my manager. Like what is this? This isn't acting, can she do? The lines Like what have we even been watching?
Speaker 3:And that sort of sent me on this journey for a number of years of being really insecure with my work and like I don't know what I'm doing and I'm supposed to do it one way, but I want to do it this way and I actually don't know anything. And so for years I sort of lost myself in this process of like what do they want and I have to do exactly what they say, and I really went down kind of a dark path. There was years I didn't book, I left that manager, I went to a different one who didn't have all the same connections and I wasn't getting as much in the room and I almost left the business. And then I found the current team that I have right before the pandemic, thank God, and they really kind of breathed some new life into me and I started marrying the two.
Speaker 3:I found a way to approach the work without the arrogance of like I'm going to do whatever I want and really look for what the writer wrote, but still have a way of finding the fun that I was missing of years ago that I had found in those improv tapes. So, very long-winded way of saying, that's kind of where I've arrived at with my auditions. Hi, it's wonderful yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I was just going to say I appreciate you sharing that, and I almost gave up nine and a half years ago on everything, even though I don't know I started what 16 years ago. What gave you the courage to be like no one more time. I always think of a Christmas story and now the kids coming back up the slide like I want to be begun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what was it that? You were like, no, I'm not going to. I still want this. So I know there's work for me and I'm going to keep going.
Speaker 3:I think I was slowly losing confidence. When I was with this first manager, when I was given the second I was given this slap to the wrist of this isn't how you're supposed to do things was when the rug of my confidence got pulled out from under me. It was the first time I really got eyed open to how big this industry is, how much money is at stake here, how little I am in the grand scheme of things. And then over the next few years, when I was with the next manager, I sort of got the opposite. I got the most supportive environment. She was the yummiest, loving, wonderful, supportive person. But I just wasn't getting work and so I started thinking maybe this just really isn't right for me. I just I gave it a good try. It's been a few years out of college and I left her on. I left that manager on a Friday, literally had the conversation with her, like I need to take a break from the industry. I'm going to kind of rethink things and took the weekend and I have incredibly supportive family and friends, as I hope we all do, and specifically my husband was a real drive in being like Maybe it just wasn't a right fit. You're going to let one relationship be the reason you throw all of this away.
Speaker 3:So that Monday I woke up and I kind of was in this like, yeah, I'm going to do it myself. And I did I started sending literally emails, like blind emails, to every single agent and manager I could think of, and by the Friday morning of that week and I know this story is going to be triggering for most because this is crazy what happened to me but the Friday of that week, so I was like started emailing Monday, friday morning, I said you know what, why am I not emailing my dream manager? Why am I just emailing these people that I think maybe will say yes to me? And so I just sort of said effort and emailed a manager at Authentic which Authentic had always been my dream management team to be with that I knew represented someone I not even a friend, just someone I had been on set once with in a commercial and she spoke so highly of him and he represented some people that I thought were great and I emailed him and I no sales pitch just sort of like I'm looking for a new team. Here's some things that I've done. And I included some self tapes because I said this is the best example of my work. It's the best example of what it's going to be like to work with me every day. My real, I want to grow it. It doesn't show what I can do.
Speaker 3:And within an hour he emailed me back and said I know this is crazy, but I'm leaving for LA tomorrow. Do you want to meet for coffee today? I said yes, I like canceled everything. I met for coffee. We had this great meeting and at the end he said do you have any questions? And I said, actually I have a request.
Speaker 3:And he was like okay, and I said just send me a fake audition. It doesn't have to be real. Let me show you what it looks like to work with me and let me show you what I can do. And he sent me three tapes on that Friday night. I taped all of them over the weekend, got them back on Monday morning and one of them happened to be a real audition, like something that was casting in that moment. He sent it in. I got a call back and so it was like okay, clearly we should work together and sort of. The rest is history. All of that to say. Everyone is so scared to blind email people in this industry. Managers and agents are people too. They got into this industry to develop talent and sometimes they forget that and it's like actually our job to remind them, you know? And so like don't be scared, you might not be.
Speaker 1:And then for real, because that takes such gravitas and the commitment, because we've had many people on this podcast and we've talked to a lot of people. It's like you have to be the first yes, and if you can't give yourself the yes, then you cannot expect anyone else to give you a yes too.
Speaker 1:And so you said yes to yourself, even let you doubt it in between, and maybe not even doubt it, just questioned it a bit. You said yes regardless and you remembered why. Because you were that little child that was that came out the womb going I'm going to be an actor. That was you. You were born to be that. And just say yes to yourself. And I love that because kind of had a similar journey. I mean not similar, but like I remember being so excited in like 2017, I was getting ready to leave my job and then I come to find out my manager at the time was leaving the industry and was dropping me heartbroken. I had just committed to leaving my job my nine to five. I said I'm going to give this my full attention. And she was like, yeah, I'm leaving, I'm so sorry and no one else can take you because they have a full roster. And I just felt heartbroken. I was like what? And I already quit my job, so what am I going to do?
Speaker 1:Just so happen, like maybe like a week or so prior, my current manager reached out to my agent to talk to me about signing with me, or at least, and I was like. She was like yeah, I met this person. I mean, they emailed me. I think you should meet them. And I was like, okay, like I was at that point, I was like at this point, because I'm just like so, I'm like heartbroken. And we met, similar, we talked on the phone and then we had coffee and I was like, oh yeah, this is this, is it. This is it. It was like, yeah, let's do this, and it was just kind of synchronicity and timing and everything. So it's like trust the process as well, even through the failures, or if you call them failures, but the hiccups, the falls, the closed doors, because there are freaking buildings that are opening for you. Right, and I just love that. You were bold enough.
Speaker 1:So, and like you said and we sit as all time and we've had casting directors on here is don't be afraid to email them, put your materials together, send it out, find ways to connect. Now we have social media, put some work on there and tag them in it or whatever. There are so many things to do and I love that. And so how has that? So I met you through the self taping and you were doing an amazing workshop and you said you're not coaching at what Like because I know you said you work with other people as well and stuff, and she helped me with my self tape. Again, she's amazing. I'm the one who needs it. No, seriously, I yeah, she just did incredible and I'll talk about that in a minute. But what was that process? Again another process for you about like teaching others, about the self taping and then going, you know, I think I could do this and like coach other people and lift them up and make their you know, just not make them, but bring the best out of them in their work.
Speaker 3:I mean it's to be honest, it's a very new thing for me, so it's still very much in process. I got connected. So I I'm a member of the Freeman studio, which is where that self tape workshop happened. I take classes with Scott Freeman. I have been taking classes with Scott for a decade. I adore him, I adore the studio. If you don't know about it, go look it up. It's like, hands down, the best acting studio in the city.
Speaker 3:He, randomly separate of me, has a relationship with one of my managers. They met for coffee. He brought to my manager, corey's attention that he was looking to do a self tape workshop and he was hoping to potentially bring in maybe a coach, slash actor and a manager together to show both perspectives of approaching a self tape. And Corey, my manager, was like you should have Jen do it because her self tapes are, like, are really great. So that's how that workshop came about. I never thought about coaching myself. I never thought about getting into teaching.
Speaker 3:I'd agreed to do this workshop and sort of out of the workshop have had a lot of people who attended the workshop being like, can you private coach me on this audition? And you know, I think we all as actors help each other. Our friends tape, I mean that's so much like part of the job. So I think in hindsight we're all kind of coaches, because we all are watching the process and when it's not your audition and you're not so attached to it, it's so much easier to be like, okay, you forgot the stakes, you know, or what you're doing over there.
Speaker 3:So I think a lot of it is just like remembering that you know how to do this and being a good mirror to the person that you're helping to say like you got another one in you and here's why you know. But but I've been really loving it. I think it's actually been making my acting better because I'm remembering and sort of putting vocabulary to some of the stuff that I've just been doing in my head and sort of not realizing like, oh yeah, I'm doing that because it drives the scene forward or I'm. I am thinking about trigger words and I am thinking about stakes, you know. It's like it's reminding me about my acting too, which is great, incredible.
Speaker 1:What is some like, some top, like five things you've noticed that have elevated your self taping game that you want to share with anyone who's listening.
Speaker 3:I think the number one and I shared this a lot in the workshop is that it's not self-taping, it's acting, and so I think for me the big transition was like okay, but this is a self-tape and I have to do it a certain way and I have to look over here and I have to set up my people and I'm in my room and nobody's here to act with me and I'm not supposed to use props and I have to stand in this spot and it just takes all the creativity out of it, it takes all the fun out of it. You're just like doing, it's just not acting anymore. It's like that's not what we wanted to do and most of our job is auditioning. So it's about finding why we love this and placing it as much as we can in the audition. So I think the biggest tip that I can give is kind of a shift that I've made even in the last year is, instead of approaching my audition and getting right to self-taping like I've memorized my lines, I've rehearsed it on my own, and then I email a friend or text a friend like hey, can you be my reader for 10 minutes at three o'clock on Tuesday? I need a little rehearsal time.
Speaker 3:I always do, and so instead what I've been doing is hey, I have this audition, I'm gonna tape it on Tuesday. I really need about a half an hour of rehearsal. Can you give that time to me and can we just rehearse it and I FaceTime? My friend put the camera aside and I'm just making eye contact, we're doing the scene together, and then I say great, for the last 10 minutes I'm gonna put you on my computer and I'm gonna self-tape it and then I'm only doing it once or twice. I don't need to do it so many times because we've rehearsed it and I think it just to me. That is the best tip I can give is rehearse the scene like it's a scene for class, for something you're about to shoot, because it's a scene you know, and it's not just about your words, it's about the listening, it's about the relationship. But the stakes, the objectives, like all the basics of acting, we always forget.
Speaker 2:But also just before you I wanna say thank you. No, it's okay. No, but I was about to say Amanda helped me so much because, remember that audition, there was a procedural and then I knew I could handle it, but I was feeling some type of way, and then Amanda's so wonderful because we kept running it 100 times and it's great. I was a dancer first. So I kind of get this weird like again again, again, not a negative way, in a rehearsing way, and then Amanda was doing that and I was like I don't wanna do it again, I don't want it but it helped so much Get out of her head because she was like in her head and not living in the story and the emotion and the connection and I was like it helped.
Speaker 2:It was just there, yeah, and it was like 14 pages. It was really intimidating because it was just a whole different thing. And anyway, thanks for the reminder, Jen. Hey Amanda, Sorry, Amanda, as you were saying.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, well, thank you, hey, I like that. No, what I was saying is well, jen actually recently helped me because, out of the blue, within two days, like three auditions and I was like, oh, my gosh, okay great. And there were multiple pages for each of those auditions and a few were in via Zoom and then a few were self-taping self-taped, and I was like, all right, I kind of felt a little disconnected and a bit rote with my self-taping and I remember it in your class that you were just talking about backdrops and just the simplistic things that we tend to forget, that we overthink, what we tend to forget, and I was like, all right, let me get back to the basics of my toolbox and just work on it. And so I sent it to Jen and I knew it was still like a practice and it was like still my rehearsal aspect. It wasn't like I knew it was done. When I sent it to her she hit everything that I already knew about that just didn't do. And I was like, oh, I forgot about that, oh, I ignored that, oh, yes, but that was great.
Speaker 1:And so I just find it so important to have a community of other actors, even if they're at a level where you want to be and if they're willing to share, because some people are just way too busy and that's fine is. Don't be afraid to share your art, because at the same time, you are also the audience member for your colleagues and your friends. You will eventually be in the audience members watching your friends, rooting them on and really believing them in these stories, and so I thank you for that, because you elevated it and I felt way more grounded because I also felt like, oh, I was seen as an actor in my self-tape and I just, like you said, I wasn't criticized Like that's not the way to do it. It was more of like well, let me just give you some healthy feedback here. Love it, you're in a great place.
Speaker 1:This was bringing it up about 10, 20 notches. This is what you know and I just love that. I appreciate that you did that. How has building a community helped you in this career as an actor? Because, like you said, the fear comes up, maybe anxiety and the mindset just kind of gets lost in the business, or maybe I'm too small, I'm a small cog in the machine. What does that look like? So my question is how has community served you and was it difficult to find in this industry.
Speaker 3:I first want to also go back to your audition for one second, because I think the ingredient you're missing is what is so special is being able to receive it too. So I think that, yes, I hopefully delivered it in a way that wasn't like you should have done that or because it was. You're great, so it already is great. And I think, but coming from a place when you are an actor, to me it's always can get better, always can get better. And I even said when, before we did the workshop, I said to my manager who did it with me, I was like, well, what if the tape comes in and it's like amazing, and then we have no notes to say because we did a thing where we'd have people tape and we gave feedback. And he was like, oh, I can always give feedback. And I think, because the point is it is a craft that is always evolving, it can always change, it can always be different, it can always get deeper, it can always. There's no perfect, there's no right. So having an opinion is just an opinion and you can stand up for your perspective versus somebody else's. But I think being able to come from a place of like, oh, I can always get it better. It can always be better. It's a really smart actor place to be and that was part of what was so great to even give you notes is that you were like, yes, and then you adjusted and you really adjusted and your tape was already good but it just went to this next level of like all right, now I really see the relationship, I really see this girl Community. I think community is so important.
Speaker 3:We are in a career that is so Ridiculous. We are constantly job hunting. We are constantly struggling. We're constantly being faced with dealing with our own insecurities and our deepest, darkest demons. If you don't have people in your life that you can call and be like, just talk to me about this or send a self-tape to say, all right, tell me, just tell me, I trust you. What do you see? It's invaluable. Everyone needs it.
Speaker 3:The best place to find it is get in class. Get in class, whether it is in the Freeman studio or there are tons of studios around the city that you take a scene study class here, you take a scene study class there, and you find your people, that your people are part of your toolbox. Yes, you're milking in all of the ingredients from each teacher and what works and you're making sure it sticks. But I have my best actor friends. I have four girls that are truly become my best friends that are from the Freeman studio. I have a friend that I did a play once with, who's become one of my best friends that I brought into the Freeman studio Just all the different walks of life that you bring into your world.
Speaker 3:I have friends who post reading nights where they read from plays just to be creative or do let's get together and just watch each other's tapes from the week, because life is hard and these will never get seen. My group of friends I don't know if it never actually happened, but we're still planning it A film screening night of our Indies that nobody saw and didn't. Those kinds of things that where this industry feels so isolating and so hard to celebrate. Finding your people to help you do that is so important.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm like I didn't think about that, screening our self tapes and sharing that with our friends and just getting the feedback and go girl, you did great. I love all that you shared and I hope anyone who feels disconnected is like you, can find your community, you can build your community. And there's so many different ways to be creative because, as actors and even just as creatives, we need outlets to create outside of being on set. And how are you going to give to your art if you're not living, if you're not experiencing different things, if you're not communicating and talking about it and also being, like you said, willing to learn? Because, I mean, I know people can say cruel things.
Speaker 1:I've had someone, a casting director, years ago say that I was never going to make it and she was an absolute mean person and made me cry it literally. I was like hold it together, man, don't cry. But I didn't let her stop me because I also had a community that was like what do you? She'll know she's talking about like, keep going, that's. Or if not, then if you feel like you need work or need help, get better, that's all, just get better than it. So you're giving yourself the yes and then they can't say no, because you're that good. Yeah, you know that bowl, but go ahead. Janelle, you were going to say something, so I got so excited about that.
Speaker 2:No, I agree, and it's beautiful. And then you also learn things that you don't know. Like you only know what you know and I was grateful that I had my friend Farron. He taught me so much about self-taping. Like, you want to talk about using props and I was so scared I didn't know what was allowed. I mean, I want to know a lot more about your one woman show, the play. I want to hear about this. And then, even before you get into that, I would love just another thing about self-taping Like how can people improv the part of themselves that is so unique, like what I've been in work that it into the character beyond making choices, because I know that's my best work and the way that I do it is pretty quirky. And then I used to be afraid of that because I was like I look like a drama. That's what people tell me. I shouldn't do comedy. I look dramatic. And I wasn't booking because I wasn't bringing in.
Speaker 2:I don't know, we're only this crazy, I can't be funny, I don't understand. But I finally brought like not necessarily improv, but kind of like a little bit more of a quirky flair even into some drama within a reason, and that's why I started booking. So any advice you have like a more clear cut way of doing that for each person? And then please tell us about the play and the one woman show.
Speaker 3:Okay. So improv is? It is one of my favorite things to talk about because I think people do get so scared to do it and so far everything I've booked has come off of improvising. So you know, when I booked Blue Bloods because I mean I don't know if it's because, but in my Blue Bloods audition I improvised a couple of things that ultimately got written in and the director was on the call and was like is this girl for real? Like I literally remember the director of that episode was Bridget Moynihan and she was like who is this girl? And we ended up and it was like sort of the line that like anytime anybody remembers that scene from from the, if they're a fan of the show and they see me or whatever they realize who I am, they say that line I'm like, yes, you know.
Speaker 3:So I think that, as long as it's coming rooted in truth for the character I used to, I think where my issue was when I was younger and I was kind of like being told not to do it is I was doing it for the sake of showing me and improvising for me and showing you how smart I was and how funny I was and how different I was and like that's nobody wants that, nobody needs that, you don't need that. It's like that's stuff to work out in therapy. But if it's like you are, my first manager said to me and it's something I always do remember If you are in the character, there's no wrong choice, because if you're as long as the character is there, there isn't a choice that's wrong to make because it's all within the character. So I think it's like of course, take it with a grain of salt they wrote a scene, they spent years of their the writers like especially if it's like a film or something, like it's their baby that they've spent years to get off the ground. Like you want to serve what they've written and that's our job. And I think that if within the character, feeding your own creative process and just sort of in the moment, it's not like a planned out thing. If something comes up, don't stop yourself. That's sometimes the goal that we're all waiting for. That is when the perfect marriage of the actor and the writer and the director, like it all comes together of like this is why we don't want AI, that we need a person, and I think that this is a good story to share and I feel like it feeds into the improvising thing.
Speaker 3:When I was shooting on organized crime, obviously, like we all do, I was a good little actor and I created my whole backstory and my whole person and Dennis and I were doing a scene that the writers we kept on feeling like it wasn't the it wasn't. The writer didn't feel like it was getting to the crux of where the story needed to go, and the writer and the director came into the hair and makeup trailer that morning and was like can we rehearse this? It doesn't feel right. And so we started running our lines and the director was like yeah, I just, I just don't know that the stakes are here.
Speaker 3:Yet you know, like I'm not really sure and the writer wasn't sure and I just said, well, my character is younger than my husband and I've painted this whole thing about how, you know, I have daddy issues.
Speaker 3:I grew up with a single mother.
Speaker 3:My dad left me. Like I gave them my whole backstory and I said I would imagine that if, if Dennis's character said to me something that really like cut to the heart of the fact that I am from a broken family, it would really trigger me to get where I need to go and I know I'm being a little vague and I hope this is coming across without having been in the room to understand what I'm talking about. But everyone was like, yeah, and the writer wrote it and it came back and it was one line and a yes, that's an improvised line, it was written but it came from the same essence of what I'm talking about, of like, knowing your character so inside and out that you can say this makes sense for her to do this. This makes sense for me to say that, this makes sense for me to have this sort of unplanned opinion about what's going on, and I think we need to have, as long as you've done your homework, have the confidence that that's why an actor is there and not a computer.
Speaker 1:You just dropped a great gem, because we tend to forget that this is a collaborative industry, this is a collaborative art and so often as actors we feel like we just we're there to just kind of be the living mannequin do what's on the paper, do it how you rehearsed it and move on. And I think you just really nailed on the head here of how much it's not even about control, but how much you can contribute to your work, even if it's just that. So you did so much of that character work and, like you said, that you gave life to this character and you were able to collaborate and you were able to articulate yourself in a way that was received well by the team and then incorporate it. And I think I've heard that so many times of from series regulars like someone can sing, and then they incorporate that the character can sing or they like, or they're afraid of dogs, and they all these things like, because that's real, that's life, right. And so breathe life into your work, breathe life into the work any way possible and be bold enough and then also prepare.
Speaker 1:I think that also the big thing here is, like you said, prepare, prepare, prepare, prepare, prepare and then prepare more and then let it go Right and then have fun. And have fun about that and I love that story and I think maybe not as often as it should be shared is that this is a collaborative even the industry, even though you know there are writers out there who get stick to the lines and this is that's fine. But what could you do in between? What kind of action could you do, what you know or even just practice with your partner if they're willing to do that? So I think that's just incredible to share and it kind of also puts ease in my heart and my mind going yeah, this is why I did this, this is why I created, why, like, this is why I wanted to be an actor when I, you know, started this industry and it's cause all of this and being able to talk about it.
Speaker 1:I love that. So I really want to dive in, because I could talk about that even more, but I really want to dive into your one woman show that's coming up called Force. Tell me about where this came from and like how it has been from the beginning to now. You start the February 29th. Am I correct to say that? Yes?
Speaker 3:You are a good little home worker.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, I, my team, dan Brown who wrote Force, not the Dan Brown, not the DaVinci code Dan Brown, but a very wonderfully talented Dan Brown nonetheless approached my team during the strike about having me do this, and it was sort of an opportunity. That felt like, yeah, this is what. I'm not doing, anything else, and I haven't had an opportunity to be on stage in a really long time. It's where my first love of all this sort of began and it just felt like such a challenge. It felt like this is going to really break me in the best way and I really, again, I'm always looking to grow, I'm always looking to learn, and I just knew that this would be an experience where I would really have to stretch myself, and I haven't had TV roles where, like, I really had to dig into some really intense stuff, and this play does that.
Speaker 3:It's about a girl, sarah Beth, who's my character, who experiences a lot of different things. She experiences a random act of sexual assault early on in the show as a teenager, and the rest of the play takes her on this journey, post the assault, of really examining her choices, and the main theme that the play looks at is how much of our life is determined by our choices and how much is determined by circumstance, and how much does fate play a role in that, or is it all our choices and all happenstance? So it's a really complicated journey and it is stretching me so completely and the biggest thing I'm kind of taking away from it and sort of to go full circle back into my self-tape. I've seen my self-tapes make a huge leap again after starting this process and the biggest thing I think that I've gotten from it is, even more so, having the courage to be incredibly bold in my choices.
Speaker 3:This girl goes from every possible emotion and from ages like truly from eight to 25-ish. So I'm really running the gamut of this girl's history, of this girl's experience of who she is, who she becomes, and it's just stretching me. It's just stretching me to all the different crevices of really what it means to be human and I think it's reminding me every time I get a self-tape, how each person is different from me and where to stretch myself into this person and stretch myself into that person, and I think that's it's just been a really fun exercise to be. You know, yeah, and where are you performing?
Speaker 3:It's happening at the Chain Theater on 36th and 9th. It's only one weekend. It's Thursday through Sunday. It's four shows February 29th, march 1st, 2nd and 3rd. I keep on thinking the second we get to, the final show is when I'm gonna hit my groove and be like all right, now I'm ready and it'll be over, but yeah.
Speaker 1:That's incredible. Did you think that you, would you know, your career would take you not to this point of doing a well-known show and, like all the accomplishments along the way, Did you kind of foresee these things? Or did you just allow it to kind of happen? Because as human beings, we can overthink things, we can let like it has to. The success has to look like you know a specific actor who was at their prime or whatever it is Like. Did you think that you, would, you know, get to this point and how does it feel?
Speaker 3:I can't remember going to a night my friend Michael was in a one-person play or one-person show writing class and the class culminated in a night at a bar where everybody got up and did a little piece from their thing they were working on and this was like a year ago. I remember going and just being, oh my God, that's so weird. He just texted me. That is so weird. Wait, I just like have to prove it, michael, that's so weird. So I remember being at that bar and like listening to all these people get up and him his show is so beautiful and me just being like I will never do this, I never want to do that. I just mean like this all looks really hard and really not what I got into acting to do, and it's like amazing for you. But man, I have no interest to just be up on stage for an hour and a half without anybody else, because what I love about acting is the human relationship that's happening between two people. So it really feels silly that here I am promoting a one-person play. So, to answer your question, no, I never saw myself doing this.
Speaker 3:Also, when I think of one-person plays, I think of things that I would have written about myself. I usually think of things that are funny. This is very dark. This is not my story. It's not about me at all. It's all fiction. But I think that what it's again, it's given me as like a reminder of how much I love theater, how much I love to be live, how much I love to learn and work on this craft, and if I have someone with me bouncing off lines, or if it's the wall in the back that I'm creating my partner, whatever it is, it's still acting, it's still what I love to do. So I feel very grateful.
Speaker 1:So I am just like I'm in awe of you. I think you have such a sparkle about you. When I said that and I was like, oh, there's something really special about this performer, this actor, and I was like I gotta, I just have to know her and just thank you for being here, because I think you will give something to our audience that they may have not known, that they needed, which was the light in this kind of field that can be overwhelming and unpredictable. And so and then, but yet you said you found your predictability, you found your place in this industry and you've made your place in this industry by your experiences. You know you, you know we're doing improv, overly doing it, and now you're like, oh well, now I can incorporate it and really get to my art in a way, and then I'm expanding and saying yes to the art and just thank you for everything that you've contributed to it. And if anyone is interested in connecting with you, or for coaching and getting tickets, what's the best way to connect with you? Yeah, and find you.
Speaker 3:I love that Instagram. I mean, I'm so active on Instagram. My Instagram is genjakeup, so easy to find, reach out. I just want to say back to you both because I think so often in this industry, we think, like you know, we all have our own goals of where we want to head and I think it's really rare to celebrate the journey along the way.
Speaker 3:And this podcast not only is doing that, you guys are both doing that, and I think that my husband says this to me a lot like I'll be proud of you at the Oscars. Of course, I'll be so proud, but I will never be more proud than when I find you crying on the bed because you, just you found out that you got released from a hold of a lead on a show and it's on to the next and you just pick yourself back up. So I think, like celebrating these moments of like the before stuff happens is so important and being kind to yourself that, if that's where you're at right now, of like either the crying moments or the before moments or the at moments, like just this is what it's all about. It's all going to be ups and downs the whole time and thank you for celebrating that.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you. I think we needed to, janelle and I. This came about in the pandemic. Now, you know, I feel like you've been on mute this whole time. I'm talking too much. Oh, no, no, no, no no, no, it's true.
Speaker 2:In the pandemic we were like saying voice memos to each other and videos, and then it was really funny because it would lift the person up, whatever they were going through. And then we'd listen back. I'd be like I don't know where this came from. But this is good.
Speaker 3:Like I would need my own advice, like a week later.
Speaker 2:So then we were like we should just do a lives on Instagram. Let's just put it on podcast. Everybody has podcasts. Everybody has back tattoos, everybody has podcasts. Yeah, I love it. It's been a privilege.
Speaker 1:It's been a privilege and getting to meet our peers so that I any person that I meet I always think this is just the beginning of our journey. I know someday, somehow we'll be on set some way some, or even passing by the red carpet and cheering you on, like whatever it is. In my mind, the way it works is like this is not the end of the road, this is just the beginning and I will see you when I want to see you Like I want to see everyone that I meet successfully living the career that they desire and then they want, not by anybody else's opinion or expectations, and then celebrating that. And, like I said, we've had so many.
Speaker 1:This journey can be full of knows and a lots of rejections and if you're not tuned in and knowing your voice and being okay with like I'm a little broken today because I got that know, crying it out and then saying yes to yourself through even through all that is it's a beautiful thing and I want everyone to know that there is a community and you have people like Jen who are going to support you and are honest, you know, and sharing their career and sharing their journey. So thank you for sharing your journey as well, and your insight and all that you told us today. Is there anything that you want to leave the audience with, or something?
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, putting me on the spot. Oh man, what do I want to leave the audience with?
Speaker 3:Hey you know what I feel like if you're listening to this and you're a creative person, that you've said it so many different ways that you're not alone, that like, whatever you're going through, we all see you, we're all. We've all been through versions of it and and I think what you said at the end just now is is one of the most beautiful things to hopefully for everybody to take on is like celebrating each other and someone that you know that got a show or that is winning. It's like the fact that you know them means you're in the right place to, and it's like just celebrate each other. We're all lifting each other up along the way and and I just think, like what a much better that's such a better way of going through life than like constantly, just like huh, how did she get that? And I should have gotten that.
Speaker 3:You know it's like actually I'll say this my my one of my best friends from this group of actors, she always says to us rejection is protection, and it's really true. It's like the rejection over here is because it's protecting you, because you were supposed to get that one or you're not supposed to do this one. I I got rejected from a movie that I really, really wanted during the pandemic and I found out that everybody on set got bedbugs from where they were staying. You know, it's like rejection is protection in the world and it's just all meant to be.
Speaker 1:I love that. Well, everyone, thank you so much. I hope that this has been an impactful episode and I can't wait to see you next time. Thank you so much for.
Speaker 3:Mindset Artistry. Yay, thanks for having me, guys.
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